Einstein vs. Islam vs. Toilets
9:31pm, 16th February 2005
Ah, toilets. The basis of our entire culture. I found this article about toilet activism astonishing - who would’ve thought such political conundrums could be caused by the old Kidderminster? Even more remarkable is the linked article about designing toilets compatible with Islam:
Islam prohibits facing the Qiblah while defecating. The Prophet said “if you go to defecate, do not face the Qiblah nor turn your back toward it.
Well Mr. Prophet, I’ll see your Qu’ran and I’ll raise you some science. Facing the Qiblah means facing Mecca, which is in Saudi Arabia. This means that there is a spot on the spherical Earth exactly diametrically opposite Mecca (somewhere in French Polynesia, I believe) at which every direction faces Mecca. In fact at this point, you are both facing mecca and turning your back toward it, so Allah has you coming and going. Maybe there’s already a sign there - “Dump here, burn in hell.”;
Of course some may counter this by saying that one faces Mecca in a straight line, meaning a kind of chord through the Earth’s mantle. That’s a tricky equation to solve when you’re desperate. Even trickier when you’re a 9th century subsistence farmer who thinks the Earth is flat. In fact, perhaps this is why Islamic culture was inspired to make big contributions to mathematics. You know the saying - behind every great theorem is a guy who badly needed to take a crap.
Returning to the problem, we notice the question of accuracy. How does one know if one is really facing Mecca, or just a few degrees off? What angle does Mecca subtend in one’s field of view? I may be wrong, but I think Mecca proper is just the small black cuboid building (otherwise how would anyone go to the toilet at all when they are in the city of Makkah? Or maybe that’s what fasting is for…), so the angle is microscopic, providing you are sufficiently far away from Saudi Arabia. That means the long triangle joining you to Mecca is very thin. If facing Mecca means looking directly down that line, you are probably safe, providing your vision does not waver across it during your bowel movement. Since we’re talking about eternal damnation, better not to risk it, and remove the triangle/line entirely from your field of view. Since you are also not allowed to turn your back on Mecca, the only acceptable position is precisely orthogonal to the triangle/line. You may require one of those surgeon’s head-clamps to keep your head absolutely steady during rectum evacuation.
I won’t go into the whole wiping-with-three-rocks thing since nobody is likely to have survived the above ordeal without forfeiting their mortal soul anyway.
Besides, there are yet more problems with the straight-line interpretation. That’s right: I’m talking about gravitational lenses. What does it mean for a line to be straight when space itself is curved? Perhaps one could use the path light follows as the definition of a straight line, but there is a problem there too. While I don’t think it’s possible for light to do a u-turn around a black hole, I see no reason why a sequence of properly placed large masses couldn’t slingshot light around in a pentagon and back at us. So even if you are looking right up at the sky when you curl one out, it’s possible that Einstein is conspiring to condemn you to a life of infinite suffering.
It seems clear to me that a full interpretation of the Qu’ran requires heavy investment in cutting edge physics. 11-dimensional M-theory could have a devastating impact on the shitting habits of Muslims worldwide.
Disclaimer
Since Muslims are a semitic people, I stand a fair chance of being denounced as anti-semitic for this post. I assure everyone that any incidental anti-semitism occurs only as a subcrime of anti-theism in general. In fact anti-theism is too strong a word. All I’d really want is for the muslim world to abandon petty legalism and undergo a kind of protestant reformation. But I will admit that a reductio ad absurdum of ass-emptying tactics may not be the best way to go about it…
Interesting, I never knew they had rules on going to the toilet. It all seems very OCD# to me! Another thought, imagine the following scenario - A devotely religious muslim, we will call Abdullah is out shopping for a new prayer mat. He had a dodgy kebab in Rusholme last night and his digestive tract is slightly dodgy. He suddendly feels the need to make a trip to the toilet and has to run to the local “Muslim friendly toilets”* in his desparation as he enters the toilets he forgets the ritual# and enters right foot first. Does this mean he will be damned forever when he dies?
Secondly, if we follow the text book rules (rather than my superior free market rules) that those who worship the wrong god are damned; Wouldn’t you feel a bit pissed off, if when you die you not only find there aren’t any Virgins for you, but even though you kept to all the rituals you are going to be damned because you worshipped the wrong god.
*”Muslim Friendly Toilets” - is this some sort of joke? I still struggle to find “Human Friendly” public toilets - infact I wouldn’t let a my dead pet cat use what passes for some public toilets in this country.
# OCD - OCD and Islam seem to have a lot in common here.
OCD is defined by obsessive intrusive (and irrational )thought processes that makes the suffer have a compulsion to carry out some sort of ritual. (e.g. I have touched something it may be dirty, I must wash my hands)
Similarly Islam - believes there may be devils** in the toilet. So carries out a ritual to ward off the devils.
** It says male and female devils:
- Do demons keep to the right toilet? If a male devil goes into the female toilets can he be arrested.
- If sex (fornication) is regarded as bad, as it is in most religions, do devils have lots of sex? If so wouldn’t you be just as likely to eventually sleep with 70 virgins if you are damned? Besides that, if you do get lots of sex when being damned does that not go against the perceived wisdom that being damned leads to an eternity of suffering?
- If devils are either male or female and have sex this implies devils can have children! Since they have lots of sex they will probably have lots of children. This would mean that there is an over-population problem in the afte-life?
Ian: maybe demons do indeed have lots of sex, but presumably that’s from them raping all the damned, which IMHO is not incompatible with the whole idea of suffering.
Another thought - A religion’s holy book sets out the rules for getting into “paradise”. Effectively, therefore a holy book is the small print of a contract, which if you meet the terms God will let you into heaven.
Does anyone legally know who is making the offer and who is accepting it?
AFAICT:
* God makes invitation to treat: Join my religion and you will get 747 Virgins, a Virgin Atlantic 747, etc.
* Person - Makes offer to get into heaven, by giving money to God’s representatives on earth (church) and agreeing to follow the small print.
* God - Chooses whether to accept this offer (presumably when person dies). At this point legally God is equally free to decline the offer.
IMHO this further supports my theory that God(s) operate in the free market!
I just want to inform you, that Facing the Qiblah do not means facing Mecca, it means facing the small black cuboid building.
Our Rules:
1-Say before entering the toilet: In the name of Allah, O Allah! I seek refuge with You from all offensive and wicked things (Al-Bukhaaree)
2-One should enter the toilet with the left foot and leave with the right foot.
3-It is not permissible to enter the toilet whilst carrying or wearing anything bearing the name of Allah, such as the Quran, or any book with the name of Allah in it, or jewelry such as bracelets or necklaces engraved with the name of Allah.
4-One should remain silent whilst on the toilet. Talking, answering greetings or greeting others is forbidden
5-One should not face nor turn your back on Al-Qiblah whilst relieving yourself.
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Thank you for your comments gimini, but I cut and deleted your irrelevant copy and pastes from evangelical sites. This really isn’t the right place for that sort of thing.
I’m sorry but i do that because can’t translate our holly book, I’m not good in English, so i have copy information in English.
And Please let’s us in peace, you are christian and we are Muslims. All i want form you that you read what you have deleted, our God say in the holly book that the earth is round since 500 JC.
Agreed. We should all be peaceful amidst strife :)
This article was a joke about taking things too literally; it’s not about whether the earth is flat or about who in the past believed it to be. I think even as far back as Eratosthenes in the 3rd century BCE, a spherical shape was assumed.
Islam believes that shitting is immoral, PERIOD! So don’t DO it!
And you’ll be full of it too-just like the islamics!
I think what Gimini is trying to explain, is that Islam being a monotheistic religion, the “petty legislation” you call it, is as equal in weight to all other legislation in Islam.
There is no choosing in which part of the religion suits you best, for example, a Muslim doesnt say I’ll not drink alcohol, but I’ll fornicate because it suits me better. It’s all or nothing, that’s what makes Muslims strong, and disciplined. So having the discipline to eat with our right hands, and clean our backsides with our left to maintain a state of cleanliness is far from OCD related, it’s simple hygiene. Muslims believe that there are certain things in everyday life that you should have the audicity to boast about, and yes; your antics in the loo are one of them. It’s not only Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists all have the same mentality that having some restraint in your actions is imperative. I’ve lived and grown up amongst Muslims and non-muslims, and I’m astonished at the hygiene levels of SOME of the non-muslims. I’m not saying that every Muslim is sparkling clean, but the guidlines suggested to us, are for the benefit of mankind - not to provide tedious rituals.
As for facing the Qiblah, some scholars who state this is only relevent in open spaces. As long as there is a wall or a shield behind you, then it is permissable to use the bathroom. Some others state it is preferable not to as a sign of respect. I’m sure the majority of muslims will change their direction of their toilet out of RESPECT, something the aetheist world has lost recognition of, respect for anything. The direction of the Qiblah is the way we face to pray, so down in French Polynesia, I doubt the Muslims pray towards the Earth Core do they now?
I find your above article typical of the ignorance this world faces from both non muslims and at times muslims; if you’re curious on why a religion practices something that may sound perculiar, then do some research first.
Dear Islamic evangelists: please stop posting nonsense on this page. It will only be deleted.
Hi
the article you refer to about toilet activism is no longer there. Do you have a copy you could post pse?
thanks
HI check this link
http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2006/04/uk-jail-rebuilds-toilets-for-muslim.html
The rules ive heard are the same as what gemini has written. When it comes to the hygiene side of things. Say your running down the road and you slip an ur arm goes in crap. Are u tellin me ur going to wipe that off with toilet paper? I kno i wudnt. Its the same wid yo bak side.
SeenSauditoilets!: I replaced the broken link with one from the Internet Archive. [local mirror]
Nasir: Toilet paper? What?
you respect others,you earn respect. be making jokes or making fun of others dosent make you smart or intellegent.learn before you teach,crawl before you walk.”way of doing things”simple not a rocket scince to be accurate.
One needs to differentiate between logic and opinion. Making claims is easy, expressing your opinions thinking that they are supported by logical proofs whilst they are nothing but opinions or imaginations is misguidance. Like some people say, everyone is an expert in their opinions.
Note that not everything in Islaam is according to what comes from the opinions of people. There are some rules which we follow based upon revelation. Example, why do Muslims pray 5 times a day and not 6 or 7 etc. The answer is they believe this was revealed by God. Then there are other issues which can be determined by using the reasoning of the sound mind and there is nothing that is based upon actual intellectual reasoning that goes against any Islamic teaching. This is why the Muslim scholars of the past said: the human mind bears witness to the truthfulness of the religion of Islaam.
The other thing that I note from reading some of the information on this site is that not only are many non-Muslims ignorant about Islaam, likewise is the case of many Muslims.
The rule here is very simple: yes, in Islaam if you are in an open land, then you should not urinate or defecate in the same direction that you direct yourselves for your prayers. However, in a place like a bathroom, which is specifically built for urinating or defecating, it is permissible to sit with your front or back facing the Qiblah (Ka^bah). Even, there is one narration in which it mentions that the Prophet ordered the Muslims to change the direction of a place specifically built to urinate in to face the qiblah so that people don’t think it is sinful to face that direction in a bathroom!
Finally, it is sad that if someone wants to prove or disprove an issue that they would start by looking at toileting rules. However, if you really want further clarifications then you can contact me.
to rate this i’ll regard this article completey baseless and illogical.taking someone’s beleif and making fun i think then one agrees: 1 is 1 and 2 is 2
never reject what is true
Prophet(s.a.w.w) said this for the beleivers for those who still have somewhat respect in their minds and attitudes.
and to clarify facing an object means facing its “face” the front , the anterior . and in case of kaaba it means the wall having the door.
then it alredy has been clarified that the spherical shape of the earth was taught to the man kind by Quran some 1400 years ago ( REFERENCE: surah - rehman, parah 27)
and then when muslims offer their prayer they know and have always known the direction of kaaba through geometrical and astronomical means so it is quite logical a thing that when u know the direction of a thing u automatically will know the opposite direction which u r not to face.
as for black body radiation i think the author should study more on diffraction of light.also make a study of polarization and a radiater!!!!!!
Be assured your dominant tone fails to mask your cynism and false bravado. This nonsense is of no weight and of dire amusement coming from a catholic/christian whose leaders and so called ‘popes’ are making headlines daily regarding paedophilism and child malifestations. By the way thank you for showing such interest in the subject, it just goes to prove that you can not get enough of our ’shit’. Fear not, our growing numbers will ensure you are well fed.
i apoligise man, ‘heat of the moment’ thing. The thing is that i am a devout muslim and took your article in a derogatory manner. As there is no way for me to retract my previous comment, i hope any offence taken may be excused.
I just “landed” on this thread, and had to pitch in. Reading the whole thing made me realize, once again, that this is the kind of innocent fun (i.e. the main article) that often starts global war and strife. I am a spiritual atheist, so take no sides in others’ religions, but it’s interesting to see how a very funny anecdote about a clearly sensible and pragmatic religious (Islamic) practice leads to such fury in so little time! We’re all just energy seeking love, and in my eyes, humor is the quintessential cure for what ails us all. Thanks for the laughs and insight into Muslim practices!
While the article itself if fairly funny, the author is wrong. The point opposite the Qibla on the globe - the point from where the straight lines emanating from the Qibla reach the Kaaba equidistantly - is in the middle of the South Pacific Ocean. Not simply, “somewhere in South Polynesia”. I don’t think us Muslims will have to worry about shitting there anytime soon.